Lucian on “The role of information”

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Dear All

I am very happy that Prof Lucian Imiones is showing his comiment and interest by many personal communications we had and which I will post here  as I know they are of great interest to all of you who want to have a glimps of the mathematical dimension of what we are dealing with in CoRe.Lucian is the brother of my friend Daniela from Rumania who already signed up with her husband and daugher for the APRIL AIM training here in Brazilhe will join us also as a presenter if his wife will join…..

I will start here with communications that have started at the beginning of this year which will prepare you for some new understanding that has developed since then which I feel have the potential to widly expand our wordview from the famous but limited concept of E=mc2


In this old equation the energy that is transfomed into the new information of the butterfly is missinghttp://www.informationenergymedicine-academy.com/wp-content/uploads/entropy-300x229.jpg 300w" sizes="(max-width: 504px) 100vw, 504px" />

In this old equation the energy that is transfomed into the new information of the butterfly is missing


LUCIAN :  We both have similar “big pictures” regarding the Worlds, Inner and Outer, and recognize the primary role of information and structure for the complex systems whose well-being are our main concern.

That matter moves from here to there (Galileo, Newton and Einstein) it’s a start, which unfortunately made “us” too proud of our control on “matter”, forgetting the Greek philosophy “Know thyself”, and philosophy altogether …

KIRAN : Yes Einstein put really turned our believe in energy into a religion, on the cover page of the San Francisco chronicle last week I saw that if people been asked for the name of a scientist 43 % would say “Einstein”, 25% did not know any name of any scientist and the other 32 % named one of a dozen others. Einstein has certainly the rank of a “high priest”.

LUCIAN : Back to the point: a few years ago (2005) I realized that there is an obvious missing fundamental principle, stating the equivalence of matter-energy ( ala Einstein) and information; moreover general relativity includes space-time in
the LHS of the balance equation (which is a shadow of the corresponding conceptual duality between External and InternaLucian Energy-matter-space-time and Information-Structure (Info. as in Entropy is a measure of Symmetry which is Structure); see my article, if you have time: http://arxiv.org/abs/0705.1116 The Search for a New Equivalence Principle.

KIRAN : Yes, this so important, as Einstein did not at all have “Information” in any of his equation nor did any one before him. It just did not show as a factor although we know that it moves our world more than anything and is the factor that moves energy. The famous equation E=mc2 has to be complemented by an equation between Information and Energy.

What we do not realize it that matter is only transformed in very rare (at least in our environment) nuclear reaction into energy or out of  matter. Transformation of Information into Energy however is an almost moment to moment experience for each of us and it does not need atomic reactors.

LUCIAN : Now this is what I see in “Inergetix” starting from the name: the distinction between Energy (and all that) and Information, with the possibility to transform one into another (as in any true equivalence, like E=mc2).

KIRAN : To make a new formula I=Ec2 as popular as that of Einstein it needs just a few examples where we can measure a direct transformation of Information into Energy. And of course it needs a scientist to promote this new formula just as charismatic as Einstein.

LUCIAN : I distinguish three main levels of discussion: Philosophical, Science/Physics and Mathematical implementation, which is the most uninteresting, since, if one knows the language well, all that’s left is to have what to say, right? So equations don’t impress me, except as concise labels ideas.

KIRAN : Formula and equations are most impressive for the left brain as it gives the appearance of complete knowledge. However closed equations are in fact incapable to even describe how a universe would move and interact if it only  consisted of 3 planets (the famous 3 body problem) now consider how much less equations are capable to describe anything of a universe that consist not of 3 but of trillions of bodies. Remember Einstein did not come up with his famous formula E=mc2 by measuring anything but only through Thought-experiments at his desk and as far as I know nobody had ever actually measured the correctness of E=mc2 in detail.

LUCIAN : Now starting from the above idea/principle, I realized that in fact EVERYTHING IS INFORMATION, the tipping point of starting the Digital World Theory. The Building blocks of fermionic mater as well as bosonic fields ARE the QUBITS, i.e. the units of quantum information (a.k.a. spinors, or just plainly Yes and NO , at the same time, with various “colors” as weights: complex numbers; so reality as any sane person knows, is not black xor white, and tertium datur all-the-time … duality THE fundamental principle in science as in religion,
oriental philosophy etc.).

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  1. Dear Lucian,
    I liked the article posted yesterday by Kiran. I absolutely agree with both of you that E=mc^2 is not the end of the story. It only covers a little part of the knowledge, and it is astonishing that (especially the Western-) world remained stuck at that level, instead of looking further. However, I would like to draw the attention to the fact that (not too many people know this!) the origins of E=mc^2 are quite simple:
    You will probably remember the Newtonian researches and practical tests have experimentally shown that force equals mass times acceleration, or
                                          f = ma = m dv/dt
    this showed however to be incomplete. The true formula is:
                                      f = m dv/dt  + v dm/dt

    This is very important because it means that if the acceleration (dv/dt) is zero, the force therefore need not to be zero if the mass of the moving ting changes with time. One can often get away with using the mistaken platitude. For example, it leads to the kinetic energy equation:
    Since energy is force times distance, an energy increment is:
                                                 dE = f dx

    from f f = m dv/dt and dx = v dt, then follows:
                      dE = (m dv /dt) (v dt) = m v dv
    integrating gives us:      E = mv^2 / 2

    This classical kinetic energy equation is only good if speeds are less than the velocity of light, and mass remains constant.
    To demonstrate that the old saw f = m dv / dt is less than the whole truth, we consider the constant speed of light (c) which means that dv / dt ALWAYS remains zero.
    So hammering the f = m dv /dt equation into student’s heads is USELESS.
    The equation becomes
    f  = v dm / dt
    when you put the force into the energy increment equation, you get: 
                       dE = ( v dm / dt ) dx = ( v dm /dt ) v dt
    the dt’s cancel and the v we are talking about is c, so dE = c^2 dm
    gives us after integration:
                                             E = mc^2

    And that’s all there is, so this formula is based on experimental data, originally gathered by Newton and many others afterwards.
    The main issue is however the value of  m ! it is defined as mass, but what is mass exactly?It is absolutely no weight, so what is it then? If we consider that the volume of atoms (considered to be the building blocks of the universe) contain more than 99 % empty space (Vacuum), what are we then talking about?

    The solution is so close and simple: All catalytic process in the universe are guided by Entropic forces, as explained during my presentation in Munich last month. Entropic forces find their origin in the Information supply from the vacuum. The so called vacuum energy is so small, that a growing number of scientists are considering it rather to be Vacuum information instead Vacuum energy. Numerous experiments using YNEG instruments prove that this is the right way to follow.
     So Kiran, your formula I = Ec^2 stands, and makes sense!
     Willy De Maeyer